Episode 158: Customer Insights That Scale Businesses with John Marvin

This episode unpacks essential customer insights and market research strategies for business owners. John D. Marvin, CEO of Texas State Optical, shares practical methods like customer lunches and competitive analysis to deeply understand client needs. Learn how understanding consumer behavior drives strategic decisions, fosters a client-centric culture, and optimizes service delivery for sustainable business growth and increased profitability.

TRANSCRIPT:

Jennifer Dawn: Hello, hello there. Welcome to a new episode of the Happy Productive Podcast. You guys are gonna absolutely love my guest today. His name is John D. Marvin. John, welcome to the show.

John D. Marvin: Thank you, Jennifer. Good to be here.

Jennifer Dawn: John, you’re from Texas. I can tell. ‘Cause I love that. I hear that Texas accent. And back years ago when I used to travel a lot with my software company, I loved going through Texas because the nicest people were in Texas and they were in the airports. They were the only ones that would like open a door for you. So there we go.

John D. Marvin: I’m glad to please.

Jennifer Dawn: I love that you guys. John is a visionary entrepreneur. He’s an acclaimed columnist. He’s an influential leader and he is dedicated to empowering others to unlock their full potential. He is the president and CEO of Texas State Optical. This is a company that does well over a hundred million dollars a year in revenues. So listen up. I’m sure that John’s gonna be sharing some amazing stuff with us today, and he’s cultivated a thriving business network while spearheading initiatives in health and wellness consulting, and also eyecare partnerships. John, welcome to the show. I would love to just start us off with, just take a minute to share with us your personal journey. Obviously that’s a pretty impressive bio, but just talk to us about the story behind that and just where you got started and how that brought you to where you are today.

John D. Marvin’s Journey: From Marketing Fundamentals to Industry Leadership

John D. Marvin: Well, thank you. I grew up in western Kansas in a small farming community. My dad was a family physician in that town. The population was about 2,000 people, so it wasn’t very big at all. My mother was the office manager for his private practice, and that’s where I and three sisters grew up and went through high school. In my junior year in high school, I became a Christian. I accepted the Lord, and really just beginning to understand kinda what that meant. But it did motivate me to attend college at Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, Oklahoma. [cite_start]That has played a significant role in my life and my mindset and my priorities and things like that is my faith. [cite: 3388, 3389]

I’d come from that private practice healthcare background. I went to school at Oral Roberts University and majored in marketing and marketing strategy. In school and academics, they teach you that marketing. [cite_start]It consists of the four Ps of marketing: Price, Place, Product, and Promotion. [cite: 3361, 3362, 3392, 3393] [cite_start]Most everybody thinks of marketing in terms of promotion, the advertising, the public relations, the types of activities, when really the other three are very fundamental to success of either a product or a service. [cite: 3363, 3394] [cite_start]I was fascinated in all four of those areas and how they played into, but I also recognize throughout it all that it, it all starts with an **understanding of the consumer**. [cite: 3395]

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: That’s what really appealed to me about this whole discipline of marketing was the, we call it marketing research, but it’s basically **understanding the behavior of consumers** and as it applies to a small business, **understanding their behavior** when it comes to purchasing whatever service or product is being sold. [cite: 3364, 3398]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: Most people don’t think about that beyond the surface, and I think that they don’t pursue that at their own demise because that’s what, in any industry, certainly in the one I’m in, it goes through these radical changes. [cite: 3399] If you’re in a position or a career like I have for over 30 years in the same field, you’re able to really see those changes. It’s one of these forests for the trees because a lot of times the small business owner can’t see that big forest and those trends because they’re locked into their everyday activities. [cite_start]Therefore they spend their day looking at trees and never really begin to appreciate a forest. [cite: 3400, 3401]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah.

John D. Marvin: The one thing that I have been focused on since I began, certainly the position that I have now, is **understanding that consumer behavior** and knowing that it can change dramatically through a various list of reasons. [cite_start]The one that everybody will identify with is that the way people purchased eyecare services and eyewear prior to the pandemic is significantly different than how they look at it after the pandemic. [cite: 3402, 3403]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah.

John D. Marvin: You’d think, “what’s that got to do with eye care? Everybody still wears glasses, they still need eye exams and so forth.” [cite_start]But behaviors can change when they are either given great opportunity to change or they are scared into changing. [cite: 3365, 3404, 3405] [cite_start]The pandemic scared a lot of people into changing their behaviors, and many of those behaviors have not returned to the pre-pandemic, frankly, because a lot of the new behaviors are now considered far more convenient and appealing than we ever even gave them consideration. [cite: 3406]

We had a couple of easy examples. We had begun using Zoom in 2018 in our company. It was like pushing a rope uphill. No one was participating. Everyone’s attitude was, “I don’t know why I need to sit here and talk to you on Zoom. I’ll just come over to the office.” [cite_start]We had a very difficult time. [cite: 3407, 3408, 3409, 3410]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah,

John D. Marvin: Within two weeks following the closure, the world going crazy. [cite_start]Everybody was trying to figure out how to use Zoom. [cite: 3411] [cite_start]And here we are on largely a virtual conference today that has become commonplace. [cite: 3413, 3414] [cite_start]We begin to recognize that instead of having three or four meetings in a week, I can have three or four meetings before noon. [cite: 3414]

Jennifer Dawn: Oh yes.

John D. Marvin: That’s an example of how the convenience of it. [cite_start]I don’t believe we would’ve been in the type of remote work, remote interactions and connections had it not been for the pandemic. [cite: 3415] If things were the same as it was in 19, we would still be meeting together. [cite_start]We would probably be doing something on a telephone as opposed to with a laptop and microphones and cameras. [cite: 3416, 3417] [cite_start]So **consumer behavior** can change dramatically. [cite: 3418] That’s what always appealed to me. [cite_start]That’s what got me first involved with Texas State Optical. [cite: 3419]

[cite_start]

I owned a market research and marketing strategy boutique shop. [cite: 3420] [cite_start]Got hired by Texas State Optical to do a two year research study for them. [cite: 3421] [cite_start]First one they’d ever done. [cite: 3422] [cite_start]We did thousands of interviews and about 60 focus groups in those two years. [cite: 3423] [cite_start]When you do work like that, you become intimately familiar with both the company but also their customers. [cite: 3424] That led to a series of things that ultimately ended up with me being involved with the franchisees and negotiating the acquisition of the company. [cite_start]About two thirds of the way of those negotiations, I was asked if I would be willing to come on as the new president. [cite: 3425, 3426] [cite_start]That was back in 2000. And I thought, this is a fixer upper, what a great opportunity. [cite: 3427] The brand itself is very iconic. [cite_start]Started in 1936, one of the earliest optical retail optical chains in the country. [cite: 3428] [cite_start]It was just a great opportunity and I think though that we wouldn’t, looking back, we wouldn’t have the success we have had if it wasn’t for all of it being grounded in this **understanding of consumer behavior**. [cite: 3429] [cite_start]What do they want and how do we best respond to that? [cite: 3430] That’s not something you do one time and gawk away. [cite_start]You’ve got to have an ongoing activity. [cite: 3431, 3432]

Jennifer Dawn: So good man. And we’re off. [cite_start]John, you said so many amazing things in all of that, and I really do wanna circle back to what I think is one of the most important points that you’ve emphasized is **understanding the consumer behavior**. [cite: 3433, 3434] [cite_start]For a small business owner, that can be a very difficult thing when you’re in the trees all day, to really step back and be able to see the forest. [cite: 3435] For a large company, they can conduct those focus groups with thousands of interviews and all of that. [cite_start]But for a small business owner, that’s not always feasible. [cite: 3436, 3437] [cite_start]So what are some suggestions that you have for a smaller business owner on what are some ways that they can, can dive in and really start to **understand the behavior of their clients**, even at a smaller business level? [cite: 3438]

Practical Strategies for Small Businesses to Gather Customer Insights

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: I think that there’s certainly a lot of opportunity today that didn’t exist 20 years ago. [cite: 3439] There are online programs that you can use for barely anything. [cite_start]One of the most popular is called SurveyMonkey, and it’s an easy user-friendly surveying method that can be used to be sent to everyone who’s been into your business and do a follow up. [cite: 3440, 3441] [cite_start]The traditional, what we used to do, is comment cards where you would give them a card and say, “would you fill this out and give it to me.” [cite: 3441, 3442] Now SurveyMonkey can be integrated into your customer database. [cite_start]You can export your database, put it in a spreadsheet and import it into SurveyMonkey. [cite: 3443, 3444] So there are a lot of things easily. [cite_start]Technology has really helped that. [cite: 3445] [cite_start]But I think one of the best ways is there are two things. [cite: 3446] One is to set up a once a month lunch. [cite_start]It could be there in your business where you’ll invite six to eight of your customers to come in and have lunch with you. [cite: 3447, 3448]

Jennifer Dawn: Hmm.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: And do your homework ahead of time and pursue something maybe specific or in general about your business. [cite: 3450] [cite_start]If we were doing that, I might, and Jennifer, you were my customer, I might say something as simple as, “how easy was it for you to do business with us?” [cite: 3451]

Jennifer Dawn: Hmm.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: I would audio record these. [cite: 3452] [cite_start]If you’ve got six to eight people around a table in your business with subway sandwiches, you’re gonna find that people are very likely to participate if you extend an invitation and say, “as a way of us trying to continually improve the services we provide or the products we sell. I’d like to invite you to participate in one of our customer lunches, and we will buy you lunch if you will come in and take an hour with us and just have a conversation with us about how we might do things better.” [cite: 3453, 3454] You’ll be surprised at how many people would be more than happy to do that. [cite_start]They wanna see you succeed. [cite: 3455] [cite_start]The fact that you’re extending an invitation like that makes them feel that you recognize their value and they’ll want to participate. [cite: 3456] Then you record those and then you pay somebody to transcribe that for you, and you’ll have it. In fact, today you don’t even have to pay someone to transcribe it. [cite_start]You can upload an audio file and have it transcribed for you. [cite: 3457, 3458, 3459]

Jennifer Dawn: That’s right.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: But then spend the time with it and then do it once a month. [cite: 3460] [cite_start]You’ll find that over about six months to a year, you’re gonna begin to hear similar things from people that are important. [cite: 3461] [cite_start]I would always ask, “what’s most important to you? [cite: 3462] If you were gonna go buy a widget from someone else, how would you determine where that would be? [cite_start]What’s most important to you about buying the widget?” [cite: 3463, 3464] [cite_start]They’ll tell you. [cite: 3465] [cite_start]After you’ve talked to a couple of dozen people, over time you’ll begin to hear the same things. [cite: 3466] [cite_start]So that’s one thing to do to listen to the customer. [cite: 3467]

Leveraging Competitive Analysis for Market Advantage

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: The other thing that I would recommend everyone do, certainly in the healthcare area, is I suggest to all the doctors and owners of practices in TSO that once a year you should schedule your eye exam with a competitor. [cite: 3468, 3469]

Jennifer Dawn: Oh,

John D. Marvin: Go, go for it.

Jennifer Dawn: that. Yeah.

John D. Marvin: Just call in. Don’t tell ’em you’re a doctor. You may know that person, but call in, schedule the exam. [cite_start]Go there, pay the full rate, and learn what their experience is like. [cite: 3470, 3471, 3472, 3473] [cite_start]We have a corporate staff and we provide, as you might imagine, a company like ours provides eyecare and frames and lenses and contacts to our employees. [cite: 3474] [cite_start]But we do so if they will go to a competitor. [cite: 3475] [cite_start]And get their exam and glasses from the competitor because now we’re not only providing a benefit to our employees, but we’re gathering competitive information for the same price. [cite: 3476] [cite_start]So shopping your competitors and then listening informally to your customers are two simple ways that regardless of what size of business you’re in, you can gather information and you can scale it up from there, depending on what you wanna do. [cite: 3477]

Jennifer Dawn: Man, such great ideas. I told you guys this was gonna be an awesome episode. And John, you’ve got me thinking as well. My coaching company is virtual and so we’ve been on Zoom for the whole time. So that was the nice thing about COVID is we didn’t have to shift. [cite_start]But a lot of our clients did shift and we went away from phone calls and went to more and more Zoom calls. [cite: 3479, 3480, 3481, 3482] [cite_start]Now I think people are getting a little bit of Zoom weariness, but it is so much more convenient than the old days when we had to travel all over. [cite: 3483] But even if you have a virtual company, I just wanna speak to that for a second. [cite_start]It would be tough for me to go buy my client’s lunch because we’re often not together because we are in a virtual world. [cite: 3484, 3485] [cite_start]But it doesn’t stop you from doing some kind of virtual time together where you send your clients a gift card and say, “Hey, go grab lunch on me and let’s all get together,” even if it’s on a Zoom call. [cite: 3486, 3487] We actually have an upcoming retreat. [cite_start]We’re doing a retreat to Alaska, and I’m gonna have a captive audience of my clients. [cite: 3488] This is something that is, you got me thinking, John. I’m like, it’s not on the agenda, but why not? I don’t have to even buy them lunch. [cite_start]They’re already on the ship where we’ve already got a captive audience. [cite: 3489, 3490, 3491] [cite_start]But having a session like this where I ask them these kinds of questions to get that feedback from my own business, I’m like, man, that’s perfect timing that you’re here on the show right before we’re ready to leave. [cite: 3492] I’m like, man, that’s a great idea. [cite_start]I’m gonna absolutely do that. [cite: 3493] [cite_start]I think that’s just a great part of stopping to see that, not looking just the trees, but really taking a step back and looking at the whole forest. [cite: 3494] [cite_start]Even planning that strategically, you said, having these lunches over six months to a year, this is not just a, “I did it once with a few clients and I’m done.” [cite: 3495] It seems like that continual, constant feedback really seems very important as far as really **understanding the buying behavior** of our clients. [cite_start]Our business retreats are designed for deep client engagement and strategic planning. [cite: 629]

Leading with Customer Focus: Impact on Employees and Culture

John D. Marvin: You’re exactly right, and you’re also, keep this in mind. [cite_start]You’re also sending a message to your employees who are there while this is going on. [cite: 3497, 3498] Even if they’re working the front, they’re aware that you’re having this lunch. [cite_start]After they see you do it 3, 4, 5, 6 times, they become aware that, “listen, the customer’s really important to us and we take our time to listen to them.” [cite: 3499, 3500] [cite_start]So just them not only hearing you say it, but seeing you live it, is powerful. [cite: 3501] [cite_start]If you own a business and you’ve got 8, 9, 10 employees and you want them to have a passion for those customers to the degree you do, you have to model that for them. [cite: 3502] They have to see you doing that. [cite_start]And so it becomes powerful in that regard too. [cite: 3503]

[cite_start]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah, it really is so powerful and the example that we set for our teams is critical. [cite: 3504] [cite_start]We have, in our onboarding when we bring somebody in, and I’ve even done this in staff meetings a couple of times, I ask my people, “who do you work for?” [cite: 3505] And they all go, “we work for you, Jennifer.” [cite_start]I’m like, “no, you don’t. I do not pay you personally out of my savings account. We all, me included, we all work for the client. And that’s where the revenue comes from. That pays every single one of you.” [cite: 3506, 3507, 3508] [cite_start]I think it’s just so important for the entire team to really understand like, who we all really work for, myself included, is the client. [cite: 3509] That’s why we’re here. [cite_start]Without the clients, none of this would be possible or necessary. [cite: 3510]

John D. Marvin: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s interesting, I tell a couple of stories. [cite_start]One is that I had a meeting one time at a room full of opticians. [cite: 3511]

Jennifer Dawn: Mm-hmm.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: Now opticians are the, for those who may not know, opticians are the people that work in the retail part of the optometry practice, and they help you with the purchase of your eyewear. [cite: 3513] [cite_start]They help you by measuring the distances between your pupil and where it all fits on the glasses. [cite: 3514] There’s a little bit of science to it. [cite_start]And there’s an awful lot of people skills involved in it. [cite: 3515, 3516] I was speaking to a group of about 30 and I just posed the question. I said, “I’m curious when, when you’re at soccer practice or you’re at church or you’re out with friends and someone says, what do you do?” [cite_start]’Cause we all get asked that, right? [cite: 3517, 3518] “What do you do?” What do you tell ’em? [cite_start]And they were saying, “I sell glasses,” or “I sell contact lenses,” or “I work for an optometrist,” or, just a variety of things. [cite: 3519, 3520] And I said, “let me help, let me suggest that you rethink that.” I suggest that what you, what you do is you help mom and dad. [cite_start]”See more clearly their 5-year-old playing T-ball for the first time,” [cite: 3521, 3522]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: “And you help the father see the sparkle in his daughter’s eyes when they are walking down the aisle.” [cite: 3523]

Jennifer Dawn: Mm-hmm.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: “For a wedding, what you do for a living is you help people see the important things in their lives.” [cite: 3524] What that does is it takes the focus off of what I do and it begins to put the focus on the value and the benefit the consumer gets out of what. [cite_start]Actions you take. [cite: 3524] [cite_start]And it’s going back to **understanding your consumer**. [cite: 3525] [cite_start]A great exercise that I ask doctors and staff to do is sit down and write a paragraph or two about your consumer. [cite: 3526] [cite_start]”Tell me about them. [cite: 3527] Gimme their average age. Do they have children? [cite_start]Do they not have children? [cite: 3527] Just describe them for me in a very detailed and very specific way. [cite_start]What does their week look like?” [cite: 3528]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah.

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: That exercise helps to really crystallize in their mind who it is they serve. [cite: 3529] [cite_start]As you begin to think about it in those terms, then you begin to look at what you do differently. [cite: 3530] [cite_start]”How do you better make, how do you make what you do? More convenient for that busy mom of three children that are ages from five until 12 or 18? [cite: 3366, 3367, 3531, 3532] What is it? [cite_start]How could we make this better for them?” [cite: 3367, 3533]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah,

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: That is when you become very different than your competitor, when you get that compassion for the consumer. [cite: 3534]

Jennifer Dawn: Yeah. And not just the passion, but purpose as well, because to just show up and say, “I sell glasses.” Not very exciting, but to bring that purpose and that passion in of, “I help somebody see more clearly their, their daughter on their wedding day.” [cite_start]That’s the stuff that, like Hallmark commercials that make you cry, John, are made of because we’re tapping into that emotion. [cite: 3535, 3536, 3537] We’re tapping into that purpose. [cite_start]So I, I would imagine it’s not just better for the consumer, but it’s better for us as well. [cite: 3538]

John D. Marvin: Yeah, it really does. [cite_start]It gives you a whole different perspective on what it is you do. [cite: 3539] Again, I’ll point out we both wear glasses. If you don’t think that it makes a difference, and I mentioned this to these people, go outside. [cite_start]Take your glasses off and look at a sunset. [cite: 3540, 3541] [cite_start]Now, put ’em back on and look at the same sunset, and tell me which you would rather have as an experience in your life, and you’re helping that you’re, you’re contributing to that. [cite: 3542]

Jennifer Dawn: Exactly. Oh, I love it so much, John. I could just talk to you all day long. You are, as I knew, gonna be a wealth of information. [cite_start]We’re just about out of time, but I’m just wondering, is there any other marketing magic that you wanna leave with our audience today? [cite: 3543, 3544, 3545]

Optimizing Service Delivery for Client Satisfaction

John D. Marvin: Oftentimes, especially in a service business, marketing in its classic sense is that product, price, place, and promotion. [cite_start]Place is the delivery. [cite: 3546] So if you’re marketing a product itself, then how that goes from manufacturing to the consumer is what’s called place. [cite_start]It’s the delivery process. [cite: 3547, 3548] [cite_start]In a service business, the product is manufactured and delivered simultaneously. [cite: 3549] [cite_start]It’s the same time, and so oftentimes how it’s delivered is really critical to the satisfaction of the consumer. [cite: 3550, 3551] Oftentimes in a service business we focus on the technical skills required to deliver. So in my case, optometry, an eye exam. What is a quality? [cite_start]Quality exam is not just the technical boxes that are ticked off, but the communication and how it is delivered at the same time it’s manufactured. [cite: 3552, 3553] So being very conscious of that and setting down and defining what it is you’re offering in a service and how do we deliver it in such a way that it adds value to the service. That takes it away. I think that that’s something that’s just not thought about. Most people doing the service business, even if it’s dog grooming, we just think about it is the haircut needs to look good, and it does, but how? [cite_start]The dog, which if in my house, that dog is one of our children, you know, so how they treated, how they’re greeted when they come in and how they’re sent home at the end of it all is all part of it. [cite: 3554, 3555, 3556, 3557] [cite_start]It didn’t just, did you get the clippers the right length and did it look okay? [cite: 3558] [cite_start]It’s an entire experience that you have with it, and especially in a service business that’s critical. [cite: 3559]

Jennifer Dawn: It’s mission critical. I love it. [cite_start]John, thank you so much for being here today and sharing so much insight and wisdom. [cite: 3560] [cite_start]Where can our listeners find you to connect with you if they wanna follow up or they have more questions? [cite: 3561]

Connect with John D. Marvin for Business Growth Strategies

[cite_start]

John D. Marvin: Probably the easiest way, Jennifer, is for them to find me on LinkedIn. [cite: 3562] You can just put my name in, in the search. I use my middle initial, so John D. Marvin, and you’ll find me. Send me a message. [cite_start]And I’ll reply to you and I’d be more than happy to even get on a phone call and visit with people, talk, whatever they wanna talk about. [cite: 3563, 3564, 3565] I’m happy to do that. [cite_start]I really feel like I’ve learned a lot over these years, and I, at this point, I get as much pleasure out of sharing that and helping other people with their business. [cite: 3566] [cite_start]The small businesses out there are people’s dreams, and I would love to be able to contribute some value towards that so they’d be happy to talk to anyone. [cite: 3567]

Jennifer Dawn: I love that so much. All right, you guys. That is it for today’s episode. Please check the show notes. John D. Marvin is his name. [cite_start]Wealth of information. [cite: 3568, 3569] [cite_start]I really hope that, not just that you listen to today’s episode, but take something away from it and actually take action. [cite: 3570] [cite_start]That’s where you’re really gonna get the result, is if you implement something that you’ve heard from today’s show. [cite: 3571] [cite_start]There are a lot of great, great things to implement here. [cite: 3572] [cite_start]I know I am definitely gonna be implementing one of these next week on our cruise retreat of starting to have these meetings with our customers. [cite: 3573] ‘Cause I think that they are just so valuable. [cite_start]And such great, great information to be gleaned there. [cite: 3574] [cite_start]So John, thank you again for being here with me today. [cite: 3575]

John D. Marvin: My pleasure, Jennifer. [cite_start]Thanks for the invitation. [cite: 3576]

Jennifer Dawn: You’re so welcome. All right, guys. That’s it, y’all get out there and have a happy, productive day now. [cite_start]Bye. [cite: 3576]

Links

• Connect with John D. Marvin:
• LinkedIn: John D. Marvin

• Connect with Jennifer Dawn:
• Website: www.jenniferdawncoaching.com
• Retreats: www.jenniferdawncoaching.com/our-retreat
• Join our Academy: www.jenniferdawnacademy.com